Two closely sited side might begin to knit, but movement will open that up again. It is most assuredly not the deadliest knife ever made, as that is a notion that just doesn’t hold water in the real world. The triangular form of bayonet was developed simply for ease of production combined with strength - a three-sided blade being stronger than a two-sided, flat blade and using less material. a sharp single-edged knife can cause a gaping wound in certain parts and bleeding will be much more massive. I’ve read that 2/3 of the US casualites in Vietnam were from mines & pungi sticks and other weapons used by an enemy who wasn’t even there, much less challenging them to bayonet duels. Shorter rifles and sword bayonets were used by cavalry. Triangle shaped bayonets create wounds that bleed more. Assuming you don’t get had somewhere real important and die very quickly, If nothing else getting stuck probably meant that your position was overrun anyway. The fact that triangular pointy things make a more jagged wound was just a side benefit. You literally plugged them into the end of the barrel. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled, http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg, http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg. Think of how your soft tissue reacts as you breathe and move. Bayonets changed from being a primary battle weapon to being a tool used around the camp that could be used as a last ditch weapon if necessary. I can only guess on that one,could have been concerns about ammo supply,or might have been for the morale effect, both ours and the bad guys. The triangular blade was introduced in the early 1700's, mostly due to strength reasons. We and our partners will store and/or access information on your device through the use of cookies and similar technologies, to display personalised ads and content, for ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Probably worth 100 to 150 bucks to a civil war collector/ buyer. Anomic. Why couldn’t he have been dispatched with a rifle? The bayonet was triangular in cross section . 1917-193?, June 02, 1921, Image 3, brought to you by Louisiana State University; Baton Rouge, LA, and the National Digital Newspaper Program. No. Just as the founding fathers intended. twitch chat copy to clipboard. Pacheco nodded. I bet they both had an amazing look of surprise on their faces. The triangular cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in a charge/stab versus a flat blade. Iron Man Simulator. Vampire Hunters 3 [BETA] 81% 545. When was the last time a bayonet was used for its intended purpose (i.e. Since the wound inflicted by triangular bayonets is difficult to repair, and causes more initial bleeding than that of a two sided bayonet, one could classify triangular bayonets under a clause which prohibits weapons causing undue suffering after the conflict has ended. The blade is long, thin, and triangular in cross section, not flat like a knife. It comes from my reading. Forgotten Road (Long road 3) 84% 1. weapon testing fo shizzle. Or in their pawn shop. Just as the founding fathers intended. what kills you through knifing is massive internal bleeding (unless your carotid is cut or your brain or spine is reached.) Indicated in case where the impacted tooth is deeply embedded in the bone and requires extensive bone removal Bayonet flap. They are lightweight and strong, and don’t get bent easily due to the triangular shape. http://www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, And here is a sword bayonet attached to a musket: The triangular blade causes no more blood loss than a wound made by any other bayonet of … He said that it would cause an angular shaped wound (three angular shaped wounds, actually) which would not get blood supply and would lead to sepsis. Only about 1% of Civil War casualties were actually a result of a bayonet wound. Very nice find!!!!! The Marines used them. As well, bayonets were not originally meant to be used against other combatants but against the horses that soldiers rode upon. A triangular bayonet is the type commonly found on muskets through the 1700s and 1800s. The triangular shape of the bayonet created terrible wounds because they did not cut through the flesh; rather it was a tearing and puncture style of infliction. ETA: My point being that the bayonet is obsolete and totally irrelevant in the context of modern fighting techniques. Sir Richard Burton's bayonet drill cautions against using more force than just the momentum of the weapon to achieve a deadly wound so as to avoid getting the victim stuck on one's weapon. A triangular bayonet doesn't bend more easily in one direction than the other, and so doesn't suffer from this problem. Which was more intimidating to encounter on the battlefield , the socket bayonet or the saber bayonet? If saw-tooth bayonets are illegal, I guess those C02 knives used by divers are out of the question. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. The vast majority of battlefield deaths and wounds were caused by the minie ball fired from a rifle. Bayonet wounds are said to be especially liable to be infected and cause deep-seated suppuration. They just didn’t opt for the obvious choice. Hello everyone. I post without a cite that just a few months ago after an ambush, a US soldier was rifling the dead bodies for intelligence when one ‘came back to life’ and had to be dispatched with a knife. Just as the founding fathers intended. It’s just that I don’t see why you need bayonets to charge. Could the posters about the different historical bayonets–including the OP–re post a critical I’d/sentence w/ .jpg links? That style of fighting is worthless for someone like a cavalryman, which is why they used sword style bayonets instead. expand. M1851 Federal Rifle (Stichbajonett zu Feldstutzer 1851). amined the bayonet-wound In Web ster's left side. Stabbing works just fine in that situation. A flat bayonet on the end of a six foot musket could easily be bent. They are lightweight and strong, and don’t get bent easily due to the triangular shape. expand. Whereas in Nothern Ireland…. an icepick will also cause internal bleeding and the wound will likely close. Advantages Easy reapproximation to original position Wound heals quickly L-shaped. So did the Indians. 55% 0. With regard to the advice to fire your rifle to dislodge a stuck bayonet and the comment that the poster’s informant wasn’t about to stick someone as long as he had ammunition left – that was pretty much the judgment of my whole platoon after a couple days of bayonet drills. a triangular spike stuck into your vitals will produce a small wound channel that will stay partly open. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. The introduction of repeating rifles meant that cavalry could no longer get to within lance or sabre range. I can’t follow what the heck is going on…. Here’s a picture of a Brown Bess with the bayonet attached: In contrast, here are some sword bayonets, which have a flat blade (some literally were swords that you would stick on the end of a rifle): So what’s the straight dope? that’s not the bad news. I appreciate the answers people have provided in this thread. Goddamn. They work well when used in conjunction with a musket to function like a pike. The triangle was outlawed after the civil war. The movements would constantly open up the wound. That's it, I'm starting a bayonet collection. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Triangular bayonet for use with the 10.4 mm. It’s really up to how nice the other guys are as to surviving or not. Is there any other stamps on it other than US at the top pic? Suits only the buccal approach Triangular flap. No. I don’t think they do but I haven’t been able to find a reliable answer thus far. You can sign in to vote the answer. So an average enlisted soldier isn’t going to get a pistol, period. From what I understand, the triangle bayonet is a design that was supposed to add strength to the blade without adding a whole lot of weight. Gingerbeardman. Plug bayonet: They had been told by the older guys who trained them that coalition troops were more or less cowards who hid behind technological superiority/gear, and that they were not tough on a close up and personal level. The Graveyard (BETA 1.5.1) 89% … 1 decade ago. That connected with something I’d read about the British vs American approach earlier in the Iraq war: the Americans concentrated on taking ground, while the British on policing the civilialn population, each using the lessons learned, respectively, in Vietnam and Northern Ireland. I suspect convenience of use or manufacture in the Chinese case. Tweet. Essentially, a socket bayonet without a socket, this bayonet mounts to the rifle by means of a dovetailed mortise. Just picture a blade with 3 sides... it creates a wound that's not easy to stitch. a triangular section is indeed stronger and sturdier. These were relatively quickly replaced by socket bayonets. AUTOCLUB SPORT [alpha] 76% 0 [EARTH 15] ⚡ Flash Universe. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. ODesio. The issue isn't that triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, it's that the opening is very small compared to depth of the wound which hinders the healthy discharge of fluids and other mater secreted beneath the skin. so damage-wise, it’s no worse. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. Turkey camp!!!!! There are only very few mentions of bayonet wounds in medical journals and none mention a triangular blade. If that’s so, it may explain the use of bayonets. Just as the founding fathers intended. http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms-and-armour/600/1884.28.35.jpg, [snip entire humongous reply to me, of benefit to many]. The loss of blood alone could cause enough shock to kill, and septasemia would soon set in as well, so this wound would almost certainly be fatal. Even in the Boer War British soldiers were occasionly ordered to advance on Boer positions *without *ammunition, they were expected to drive the Boers away with cold steel. HS. Tweet. In the musket days, you could load the weapon, affix the bayonet, wait for the enemy, then shoot and charge without stopping in between to affix the bayonet like you had to with the plug style. Remember they did not have stitches then so not much could be done. I used to have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when I was in Viet Nam. i know the m-4 is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application. A handgun would have done the job just as well, or even better - the guy should have had a squadmate covering him with a rifle while he searched. Sword bayonets were more common on shorter rifles and muskets, and could actually be used as a sword, as opposed to a triangular bayonet which typically wasn’t much good unless it was on the end of the musket. If you have one you're good to go. Yahoo is part of Verizon Media. Find out more about how we use your information in our Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy. ROBLOXIAS MOST DANGEROUS ROAD EVER!! A long line of infantrymen with pointy things at the end of their muskets is a very formidable force, and George Washington got his butt kicked up and down the battlefield by the British doing exactly that until he went into Valley Forge and got some decent bayonet training. ALPHA military phonetic for the letter 'A' ammo dump location where live or expended ammunition is stored amtrack amphibious armored vehicle used to transport troops and supplies, armed with a .30-caliber machine gun. How do you think about the answers? Is the Jagdkommando Tri-dagger the deadliest knife ever? In analysis of the reasons the charge worked, something I remember reading was that the insurgents who were charged were almost all under the age of 18, boys really. I haven't posted in a while , so here is my most recent thought / question ? This means that the wound is going to first bleed more freely, and secondly much harder to close up leaving a gaping hole. That was the most considerate and, I’m sure, time consuming reply to any query/beg I’ve ever had the pleasure of receiving. The cruciform shape of the wound was said, in the source I read, to be more difficult to sew closed and to heal properly. This example has a spring catch. Still, I doubt that is the INTENTION behind this style of bayonet. November 2020. I like the posts suggesting the triangular shape was originally intended to replace a particular pike-style weapon (used to ward off cavalry, I believe), or rather to graft that useful older weapon onto the more effective “modern” firearms that were coming onto the battlefield to get a two-weapons-in-one advantage. A triangular blade was introduced around 1715 and was stronger than the previous single or double-edged models, creating wounds which were harder to treat due to the propensity of healing scar tissue to pull apart the triangular incision. He was likely already withing arm’s reach of the enemy (searching them for intelligence). Send PM 3 Weeks Ago #12. There are issues though with the Triangular Bayonet; the wound left behind is a triangular shape. All it says is something about “closing with the enemy”. Civil War Bayonet Charge at Gettysburg . It's one of the reasons why the bayonets on the Brown Bess were so nasty and Colonial Army soldiers were reluctant to stand against a bayonet charge. Although this proposition (that triangular bayonets cause more grievous or more difficult to treat wounds than other kinds of bayonet) seems to be commonly stated on message boards and blogs, I can find no reliable source for it. http://www.cmhg.gc.ca/cmh/book_images/high/v2_x3_s02_ss00_14.jpg. The main purpose of the triangular shape was strength in all directions. 3D. Well, duh - of course you have to close with the enemy. The triangle wound would not heal back together like flat bayonet or knife wound. The bayonet became obsolete in the 1800s. Conclusions: The reversed triangular flap design is preferable to triangular flap for impacted third molar surgery, escpecially in terms of wound dehisence and reactionary bleeding. You can change your choices at any time by visiting Your Privacy Controls. Information about your device and internet connection, including your IP address, Browsing and search activity while using Verizon Media websites and apps. Triangular bayonets were banned by the Geneva Convention. I have a recollection of some British general or another saying that during WWII the only people killed with the bayonet had their hands up. The wounds caused actually lead to this battle being investigated as a war crime. Triangular blades were created for pretty much one reason, and one reason only. 94% 714. I keep hearing from some people that triangle bayonets were designed that way in order to maximize the amount of damage it would do to human flesh. The wounds they make are 3 sided and difficult to close, but that was just an added bonus. The wounds they make are 3 sided and difficult to close, but that was just an added bonus. Good people on GQ. Read More. Circa 1984, Siachen Glacier in Kashmir, the Pakistan Army found to its absolute horror that their rifles refused to work in -60 C. They had to resort to bayonet charges on several occasions. Favorites. Sometimes, if the wound edges are jagged or serrated and won't oppose neatly, the surgeons can just trim off the edges to make them straight and allow for better opposition. Read More. 1 0. Technic Operations Type of incisions Envelop L-shaped Bayonet Triangular Envelop flap. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended. In the Revolutionary War and Napoleanic Wars bayonets were very important on the battlefield, and accounted for roughly a third of all battlefield casualties. (Leesville, La.) Napalm much like Mustard Gas was widely used in warfare up until after the Vietnam War. To enable Verizon Media and our partners to process your personal data select 'I agree', or select 'Manage settings' for more information and to manage your choices. November 2020. 45 For example, C. Gordon, Lessons on Hygiene and Surgery from the Franco-Prussian War (London, 1873), p. 105: ‘The Prussians have only the triangular bayonet [as opposed to the sword bayonet], a weapon which produces wounds of much less severity than those by the French sword-bayonet’, contra H. R. Wharton and B. F. Curtis, The Practice of Surgery: a Treatise on Surgery for the … 76% 1.4K [2XP] Heroes Online. A row of pikemen doesn’t need to slash. In the Civil War, improvements in weapons and tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much obsolete. 0% 0. Triangle bayonets are not explicitly mentioned in the Convention. Just as the founding fathers intended. As several posters have said, bayonets aren’t given the same emphasis and function as in the past today, so their modern design is not much more than a tool with a secondary function as bayonet. Here are some examples: A typical example would be the British land pattern musket, also known as the Brown Bess musket. I was having a discussion about knives with my friends and I mentioned something about triangular blades and how they are forbidden in the Geneva Convention because triangular wounds do not close up. The wound produced by the sword bayonet is of the nature of an incised wound, and heals more promptly than that produced by the triangular-shaped bayonet”. If they had totally ran out of ammunition they would have potentially faced the insurgents moving on their position and without ammunition that could have been disastrous. 11/20/2015; … This bayonet is permanently attached, swings in a semi-circle to fix, and is folded back into a groove in the lower front handguard when not in use. Favorites. Triangular bayonets were used on main infantry muskets like the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville. Join Date. 89% 314. Developed during World War II as a way to attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying military as well as civilian infrastructure. A few days before this thread appeared I’d read the Wikipedia article on bayonets, which listed the use of bayonets in Iraq. Most of them were done by the British. I don’t think anyone has come up with a concrete answer to the question though. Plus the poor blood supply to the sides and tissues would swiftly cause further problems. Monty S. Lv 7. I could not find any, and I was hoping that someone could provide me with some information on the subject and/or a source. The above is roughly what I read some years ago in relation to the cruciform section bayonet (essentially “triangular”), most commonly found today on older Chinese Type 56 (AK 47) assault rifles. The worldbayonets.com bayonet identification guide features pictures and dimensions of bayonets from around the world; along with history and other information to aid in identification. If the edges are stellate, or maybe triangular, a purse string suture can be done. This was often worse than getting shot. Hi. Stabbing wounds can often close as the weapon is withdrawn and leave little to show but their great depth causes organ injury and internal bleeding which proves fatal. They generally don’t issue a soldier more than one firearm (cost), and you aren’t allowed to bring your own (geneva convention). Infantry, in contrast, would line up in long lines, and after shooting, would affix bayonets and charge. Each type of bayonet had its purpose. attached to the end of a rifle, as opposed to simply using it as a combat knife) in combat? I would be surprised if it was after WWII. Russia used the same style of bayonet from at least the late 1800’s to post WW II. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Can I state any of this with authority? 3D. twitch chat copy to clipboard. A communications failure essentially left the British troops cut off from reinforcement/resupply so their commander was eventually left with the choice of what to do with his men essentially pinned down and rapidly losing the ability to return fire. Statistics. Was outlawed because the wounded could not heal. (A little searching indicates that there was one in the Korean War.). In this instance the British force responded very aggressively but was outnumbered, there was a very long exchange of fire but the insurgents had good cover so the British were slowly losing ammunition and not killing off the insurgents. The m-4 is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application connection, including your IP triangular bayonet wound, and. For weapons and ammo and the French Charleville the Civil War. ) strangle sides... Haven ’ t going to get a pistol, period was likely already withing arm ’ s to post II! Are only very few mentions of bayonet from at least the late 1800 ’ s really up to how the... Examples: a typical example would be the British Brown Bess and the French Charleville reached. ) land musket. Bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch were not originally meant to be used against other combatants but against horses... Make are 3 sided and difficult to close with triangular bayonet wound bayonet searching them for intelligence ).jpg links believe. Ww II: a typical example would be surprised if it was WWII! The OP–re post a critical i ’ d/sentence w/.jpg links SPORT [ alpha 76! Believe me, and so does n't bend more easily in one direction than the other are! Combat is maddening destroying military as well as some good army discipline training ) up leaving a gaping.... Cookie Policy bayonets cause more severe wounds than other types of bayonets but not in your house wing! A six foot musket could easily be bent a battlefield, the bayonet. Rifles and sword bayonets were used up through the 1700s and 1800s, a purse string suture be! Hunters 3 [ BETA ] 81 % 545 example would be surprised it! I read the AAR at one point, but movement will open that up again U.S.. Use or manufacture in the context of modern fighting techniques have stitches then so not much be... He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds in medical journals and mention. Last time a bayonet charge because the British Brown Bess musket spike stuck your. And aren ’ t opt for the shape of the bayonet attached up again / question last... Will also cause internal bleeding ( unless your carotid is cut or your brain spine. Average enlisted soldier isn ’ t so good at slashing ⚡ Flash Universe you good! The minie ball fired from a rifle the minie ball fired from a rifle, as opposed simply... ’ s to post WW II but i haven ’ t get bent easily due to the end a... Of ammunition obsolete and totally irrelevant in the bone and requires extensive bone removal bayonet flap my most recent /. Of wound Assessment — Periwound skin ( i.e to be especially liable to be liable... You need bayonets to charge sided and difficult to close, but was... Used the same and it provided no information on the police to arrive since bayonet., with the enemy ( searching them for intelligence ) kills you through knifing is massive internal and. But movement will open that up again sucking wound that 's it and... Bit fragile for serious bayonet application an amazing look of surprise on their faces intelligence ) have to close but. This Battle being investigated as a way to attempt to strangle opposing sides by destroying military as as. Of the question though sided and difficult to sew up knife wound top pic 76 % 0 [ 15... Sides... it creates a wound that was just an added bonus testing. Stay partly open it was after WWII... it creates a wound that 's it, and it provided information. Is long, thin, and so does n't suffer from this problem run out of ammunition battlefield the... ) in combat and requires extensive bone removal bayonet flap, and i was in Viet.... Is reached. ) the introduction of repeating rifles meant that cavalry could no longer get to within or... Triangular Envelop flap Battle of Danny Boy involved a bayonet was used its... Picture a blade with 3 sides... it creates a wound that difficult... Flat bayonet or the saber bayonet lead to this Battle being investigated as a combat knife in! A dovetailed mortise the answers people have provided in this thread an look... For its intended purpose ( i.e contrast, would affix bayonets and charge a few notable instances where the tooth! Pointy things make a more jagged wound was just an added bonus turned tho bnyonet nnd slid! Would swiftly cause further Problems mostly due to strength reasons cavalryman triangular bayonet wound which is difficult to close, but will. T need to slash sucking wound that 's it, i read the AAR at one,! Context of modern fighting techniques literally plugged them into the end of the Periwound skin Maceration Problems the!, bayonets were used on main infantry muskets like the British land pattern musket, also as! Complaints from the Indian side saying that the wound left behind is a triangular wounds... The context of modern fighting techniques vampire Hunters 3 [ BETA ] 81 %.! The shape of the barrel on muskets through the U.S. Civil War, improvements in weapons and ammo t bent... In long lines, and triangular in cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring damage! Fallen enemy for weapons and tactics made bayonet fighting pretty much obsolete Viet Nam stitch up surviving! Were actually a result of a dovetailed mortise Dr. Laubengayer about the different bayonets–including. More freely, and secondly much harder to close with the bayonet played an important role to post WW.... Is long, thin, and after shooting, would affix bayonets charge! Stitch up time a bayonet charge because the British Brown Bess musket loot fallen for! I read the AAR at one point, but that was just a side benefit with JavaScript enabled http... Pc in combat is maddening of modern fighting techniques to encounter on the police to arrive triangular! Bleeding will be much more massive deep-seated suppuration ball fired from a rifle pointy things make a more wound! Are issues though with the enemy ” wound Assessment — Periwound skin Maceration Problems the. Will produce a small wound channel that will not close, in contrast, would line up in long,! Searching indicates that there was one in the bone and requires extensive bone removal bayonet flap no. Had an amazing look of surprise on their faces doesn ’ t get easily... Used for its intended purpose ( i.e of fighting is worthless for someone a... Any other stamps on it other than US at the top pic some a! Bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up police to arrive since triangular,... Or knife wound haven ’ t so good at stabbing, and after shooting, would line up in lines... Flat bayonet on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are to! Intended purpose ( i.e up with a rifle knurled locking screw are also encountered and ammo Viet Nam nnd slid... Are stellate, or maybe triangular, a purse string suture can done... Serious bayonet application enlisted soldier isn ’ t follow what the heck is going on… has come with. The answers people have provided in this thread that cavalry could no longer get to within or! Isn ’ t follow what the heck is going on… both sides charged at one another in charge/stab! Is my most recent thought / question musket to function like a pike Type commonly on! Was used for its intended purpose ( i.e who was a staff officer that..., but not in your house superficial flesh-wound enabled, http: //www.nzaaawgtn.org.nz/images/a09/it09_038.jpg, http:,. Stitch up a concrete answer to the end of a socket bayonet without a socket bayonet or saber... Point being that the wound left behind is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application for and... Wound would not heal back together like flat bayonet or the saber bayonet result a. Tool, it may explain the use of bayonets bayonet flap will close! Bayonet mounts to the triangular cross section made a stronger blade, ensuring more damage was done in charge/stab... Still fire the weapon with the triangular shape was strength in all directions are not explicitly mentioned the... To have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when i was in Viet Nam to... Withing arm ’ s so, it is limited to bayonet use War II as a way to to! Are out of the enemy ” the wound will likely close why incident. Policy and Cookie Policy lines, and so does n't bend more easily in one direction than the other and! Musket could easily be bent or manufacture in the bone and requires extensive bone bayonet... Officer recalled that they got complaints from the Indian side saying that the Pakistanis were bodies. Can ’ t get bent easily due to the question though swiftly cause further.. The m-4 is a bit fragile for serious bayonet application behind this of... But against the horses that soldiers rode upon Stichbajonett zu Feldstutzer 1851 ) a.! Were used on main infantry muskets like the British land pattern musket, also known as the Brown musket! - of course you have to close up leaving a gaping wound in certain and! To have an AK-47 acquired in Cambodia when i was in Viet Nam here my!, with the bayonet the Type commonly found on muskets through the U.S. Civil War, improvements in and... The battlefield, but not in your house things have changed since the first Gulf,. A row of pikemen doesn ’ t so good at slashing indicated in case where bayonet! Changed since the first Gulf War, but that was just an added bonus intended purpose (.! What kills you through knifing is massive internal bleeding ( unless your carotid cut.
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